This is quoted from a very lopsided discussion on my Discord server: here I'm quoting my "conclusion" (or policy statement) at the outset, and then, below, you'll see the context it emerged from following, quoted in sequence. Basically: people some people have now joined the audience who are really unaware of what the M.O. (or "policy") of the channel has been from day one.
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a-bas-le-ciel (Youtube name) ~ 7:38 PM
@Azihayya The reason why I'm tempted to kick you out of this discussion forum is this (this is brief, but I'd encourage you to read to the end before replying).
You're coming into a "server" (Discord discussion group) that is EXPLICITLY COMMITTED TO being anti-video-games.
There's absolutely zero ambiguity in my message on this issue.
This forum is also EXPLICITLY COMMITTED TO "a meaningful life" and the repudiation of "the unexamined life" more generally —and here there must be some ambiguity, because some of the philosophical ideas are ambiguous or debatable. Still: if you've watched my videos [i.e., in general], there's not much ambiguity left.
https://youtu.be/krWRL_mkWi0
I criticize others, holding them to a high standard… and I always have (examples within the vegan movement are numerous).
AND (as explained in that video [linked to] above)… I encourage people who want to criticize me to ALSO rise to a similarly high standard.
Nobody's perfect, but if you want to have your own opinion on Aristotle, read Aristotle yourself, and then make your own video showing that I'm wrong (and you can replace "Aristotle" with many other topics I've covered, etc.).
So the question becomes, @Azihayya, WHY THE HELL would you come into the ONE AND ONLY tiny corner of the internet that is devoted to these things…
and beg (let alone demand) that I (or we) have some kind of positive, coddling attitude toward playing video games?
What the fuck is wrong with you, and why would this forum have any reason to exist (and why would my youtube channel have any reason to exist) if the point were for me to have the same bullshit "encouraging" attitude toward things I regard as truly evil?
You're in the position ( @Azihayya ) of a meat eater who sits down in a vegan restaurant and eats beef steak (purchased as take-out from another restaurant) in front of the other patrons (AND I HAVE WITNESSED THIS). You might say to this person eating beef, "In this whole city, every other restaurant is pro-meat except this one… why do you have to come here to eat meat?"
Every other place on the internet is pro-video-game, and pro-unexamined life… I seriously have to ask you @Azihayya… How dare you? I really would like to ask you to quit, rather than banning you:
How the hell did you get this sense of entitlement, to come in here and tell me that my purpose is to make video game addicts feel better about themselves? You might as well tell me that I should be encouraging toward people who smoke marijuana, gamble or eat beef: if you subscribe to à-bas-le-ciel and you join this discord server, YOU ARE SIGNING UP for one of the few moderated discussion spaces with the opposite bias:
I am deeply committed to confronting, debunking and discarding all of these things.
If someone comes in here who supports the use of SSRIs, and they just want to offer a bunch of excuses and rationalizations for anti-depressant use, I think I'd have to say something similar: "Look, almost every single Facebook group and Discord forum is just going to give you 'encouragement' and echo back this sort of bullshit… but you can't demand that I (Eisel Mazard) or any of my fans be 'encouraging' to you… because you have signed up for the one place where we are going to GIVE IT TO YOU RAW, and directly fucking tell you that you're getting brain damage from a drug that was already debunked as pseudoscience in the 1980s."
(Fin)
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Below… STARTING AT THE BEGINNING, SHOWING THE CONTEXT…
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Azihayya ~ 6:37 PM
I think Eisel would find more meaning and success in engaging people without the hatred and contempt.
I think anyone would.
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kovy_17 ~ 6:39 PM
That's fine, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I don't mean to come off as hostile. But you achieving your goal doesn't all of a sudden mean everything you did is now beneath any self reflection, if that makes sense. @Frei01
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Azihayya ~ 6:41 PM
I don't think pushing people to self reflect or having pity for them is positive engagement either though. Especially in such a shallow context as this conversation? Who here can really say that we better got to know Frei? We're all too busy telling him how he ought to conduct himself and what to believe, despite only knowing him for the lesser part of a day. I can see how off-putting that must be for the person.
From the looks of it, people come here to be attacked. I know y'all like Socrates--but I wouldn't come here looking for healthy engagement or to find a genuine connection with anyone.
If this is about humanity, I really think you're missing the point. (Directed at Eisel)
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Rowdy Isolation ~ 6:45 PM
this is some hard truth facts
when ever some one comes in here from outside the general echo chamber the communication turns super toxic
which feels weird for a server that can talk about really edgy political stuff in a super respectful way
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kovy_17 ~ 6:53 PM
@Azihayya I didn't tell him how he ought to conduct himself or believe though, I asked him why he thought playing video games was a meaningful use of time. He really didn't explain why, he was very vague. I dont have pity for him, he may be a way better person than me for all I know. And I dont really see how we can engage in a discussion about whether people should play video games ( or similar activities ) without asking people to reflect on the time they spent on these activities, and if it was worth it to them. Im totally open to hearing their reasons
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Azihayya ~ 6:56 PM
Sure. I hear that. I want to ask the community here, especially Eisel, though... More important than asking us to reflect on the time we've spent playing video games... Reflect on the time that you've spent calling people pieces of shit and putting them down because you think their ideas are stupid. If we're going to ignore these issues, then we're guilty of creating a cult of elitism and contempt--all under the guise of leading a meaningful humanitarian life.
That should be the elephant in the room, if you ask me.
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Zdan ~ 6:56 PM
I think elitism is the essence of this approach.
Meaning Eisel's.
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kovy_17 ~ 6:59 PM
@Azihayya Sure totally. I dont mean to ignore those issues, I'm not on this discord a whole lot so Im not really familar with how people act here
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Jonmonji ~ 7:01 PM
@Azihayya your post really resonated with my experiences a first timer on this server, coming as a fan of his YouTube videos I was definitely expecting more out of this.
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zsych ~ 7:01 PM
Playing video games is masturbatory and self-indulgent but I think there's a time and place to be those things in the life we have
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Azihayya ~ 7:02 PM
I see a lot of tip-toeing around Eisel, trying to censor oneself enough not to anger him, only to get stomped on anyway--and then some people who are willing to deprecate themselves to appease him. I don't know anyone who's stuck around for all that long on here.
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samtc ~ 7:02 PM
@Azihayya Saying there's an elephant in the room usually means people are ignoring it. No one's ignoring it. Eisel has explicitly stated veganism is elitist [1]. Obviously, Eisel is contemptuous. Should he conceal his contempt for things he finds contemptible? Obviously not. Anything else but absolute honesty in these matters would ruin his message.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1eiv0ifBh4
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Zdan ~ 7:03 PM
Essentially what Eisel proposes is a noble pursuit of elitism and a life of betterment of oneself and helping of others. And NOTHING ELSE. The problem with this, in my view, is thus: this is highly unrealistic. Eisel might do it and I think he does but how viable that message is even to a very small group of people?
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Azihayya ~ 7:04 PM
Should Genghis Khan not have stomped his brother's head into his rug?
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samtc ~ 7:04 PM
I don't know that story.
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Azihayya ~ 7:05 PM
What I'm saying is, you've got a great disposition, for a warlord.
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samtc ~ 7:06 PM
Honestly, how many of Eisel's vids have you watched? @Azihayya
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Rowdy Isolation ~ 7:06 PM
honestly how is that a question you are asking right now
he is pointing out a problem we have on this discord and you are going to try and gatekeep him by checking how many videos he has seen?
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samtc ~ 7:07 PM
Because I can't believe he's asking these questions that Eisel has answered in his videos.
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Zdan ~ 7:07 PM
Is that adressed to me?
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Rowdy Isolation ~ 7:07 PM
Eliesel has very little to do with this tbh
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Zdan ~ 7:07 PM
Or to somebody else?
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Rowdy Isolation ~ 7:08 PM
it is much more about how we, his fans, conduct ourselves in discussion on his provided forum
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Playborstel ~ 7:08 PM
Honestly, my experiences on this channel has been just as toxic. This talk of living your life in an optimized way requires a huge leap of faith.
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Zdan ~ 7:09 PM
I find what Eisel proposes a great idea in theory. I just do not think it is viable for almost anyone.
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Playborstel ~ 7:09 PM
I mean why are long term goals more valuable honestly?
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Arsym ~ 7:10 PM
I think what he proposes is fine, but he has his own self-indulgence that he fails to address and it comes off badly. Either learn to give leeway, or crush your own self-indulgence.
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Zdan ~ 7:11 PM
That is the problem with Eisel's version of the "best life" - there is no leeway. NONE.
Leeway = waste in this version of life.
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Arsym ~ 7:17 PM
It comes off more as "everything I do is meaningful, just in varying degrees. Things others engage in are often meaningless."
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Jonmonji ~ 7:18 PM
To be honest my greatest disappointment was with the responses from eisel himself, I was expecting people in general to be how they tend to be on the internet, it seemed like he misinterpreted my post and went pretty hard with the vitriol. But I guess I'll chalk it up to him having a lot of stuff to read and respond too. But I do see him a bit differently now
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Zdan ~ 7:19 PM
I will still watch Eisel for inspiration, information and his takes on different issues. To be completely honest - as it seems to be a valued approach here - I do not think I could live the life he proposes.
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Arsym ~ 7:21 PM
That's my approach. His content is good, but the interpersonal relations leave much to be desired.
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Jonmonji ~ 7:25 PM
@Zdan same hear just watched a bit of one of the vids somebody linked here and it's nuts that it's the same person that responded to me earlier, he's still one of the most thought provoking YouTubers that I'm subscribed to
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Zdan ~ 7:27 PM
Absolutely true and I would never deny that. Eisel's videos are often thought provoking, informative and offer takes that almost no YouTuber does. I just find bits of he proposes to be unrealistic and frankly undoable for the vast majority of people.
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vi-gi ~ 7:31 PM
I don't think it's that undoable. One should try to at least analyze, what kind of meaning one really gets from some activity.
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Zdan ~ 7:33 PM
I think it is doable in a sense. The problem is that people approach meaning as subjective. They assign meaning to different types of activities - something is meaningful to them. To one - training boxing might give one meaning. To some other person - reading Aristotle. To yet a third - listening to music. Now you might argue that there is something is objective meaning but to many people that would be a problematic conclusion.
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a-bas-le-ciel (Youtube name) ~ 7:38 PM
@Azihayya The reason why I'm tempted to kick you out of this discussion forum is this (this is brief, but I'd encourage you to read to the end before replying).
You're coming into a "server" (Discord discussion group) that is EXPLICITLY COMMITTED TO being anti-video-games.
There's absolutely zero ambiguity in my message on this issue.
This forum is also EXPLICITLY COMMITTED TO "a meaningful life" and the repudiation of "the unexamined life" more generally —and here there must be some ambiguity, because some of the philosophical ideas are ambiguous or debatable. Still: if you've watched my videos [i.e., in general], there's not much ambiguity left.
https://youtu.be/krWRL_mkWi0
I criticize others, holding them to a high standard… and I always have (examples within the vegan movement are numerous).
AND (as explained in that video [linked to] above)… I encourage people who want to criticize me to ALSO rise to a similarly high standard.
Nobody's perfect, but if you want to have your own opinion on Aristotle, read Aristotle yourself, and then make your own video showing that I'm wrong (and you can replace "Aristotle" with many other topics I've covered, etc.).
So the question becomes, @Azihayya, WHY THE HELL would you come into the ONE AND ONLY tiny corner of the internet that is devoted to these things…
and beg (let alone demand) that I (or we) have some kind of positive, coddling attitude toward playing video games?
What the fuck is wrong with you, and why would this forum have any reason to exist (and why would my youtube channel have any reason to exist) if the point were for me to have the same bullshit "encouraging" attitude toward things I regard as truly evil?
You're in the position ( @Azihayya ) of a meat eater who sits down in a vegan restaurant and eats beef steak (purchased as take-out from another restaurant) in front of the other patrons (AND I HAVE WITNESSED THIS). You might say to this person eating beef, "In this whole city, every other restaurant is pro-meat except this one… why do you have to come here to eat meat?"
Every other place on the internet is pro-video-game, and pro-unexamined life… I seriously have to ask you @Azihayya… How dare you? I really would like to ask you to quit, rather than banning you:
How the hell did you get this sense of entitlement, to come in here and tell me that my purpose is to make video game addicts feel better about themselves? You might as well tell me that I should be encouraging toward people who smoke marijuana, gamble or eat beef: if you subscribe to à-bas-le-ciel and you join this discord server, YOU ARE SIGNING UP for one of the few moderated discussion spaces with the opposite bias:
I am deeply committed to confronting, debunking and discarding all of these things.
If someone comes in here who supports the use of SSRIs, and they just want to offer a bunch of excuses and rationalizations for anti-depressant use, I think I'd have to say something similar: "Look, almost every single Facebook group and Discord forum is just going to give you 'encouragement' and echo back this sort of bullshit… but you can't demand that I (Eisel Mazard) or any of my fans be 'encouraging' to you… because you have signed up for the one place where we are going to GIVE IT TO YOU RAW, and directly fucking tell you that you're getting brain damage from a drug that was already debunked as pseudoscience in the 1980s."
(Fin)
